5 Messages
Digest #2471
Messages
Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:50 am (PDT) . Posted by:
rhkramer03
I assume a few things:
* you mean tripped (not trying to be pedantic), but there are (on most
(home) breakers, two off positions, one that is all the way in one direction
which is used when a person intentionally turns the breaker off, and one in-
between the on and off positions which is reached when the breaker trips due to
an electrical fault.
* no one else was home who might have switched the breaker to off
In general, a tripped breaker is due to an electrical problem. Most home
breakers can trip for either of two reasons:
* a short circuit, which causes a very high amperage fault, which trips the
breaker very quickly, ideally on the order of milliseconds
* a circuit overload meaning the combination of things turned on uses more
current than the rating of the breaker. Also, this typically occurs much
slower than a short circuit fault, and the time to trip varies depending on
how big the overload is. For example, if you have a circuit breaker rated at
15 amps and you have a load of 16 amps on the breaker, it may take 5 to 60
seconds to trip, if you have a load of 20 amps on the breaker, maybe it will
trip in one second (just guesses). And really, there is enough variation in
breakers that the time to trip will vary between breakers.
Oh, almost forgot, breakers for electrical outlets in damp or potentially wet
areas, like bathrooms, outdoors, and, iiuc, now kitchens need to be protected
by a GFC device--either in the breaker or as special outlets with a built in
GFC device--those will have a button on them to reset them after a fault.
These are designed to trip very quickly on very low current, when the breaker
"thinks" that the low current might be going through a person. They do this
in a little bit of an unexpected way--they (essentially) compare the current
going in on one wire to the current going out on the other wire, and if they
are different by a small amount of current, the breaker is tripped--in essence,
it doesn't know where that missing current is going, but on the chance that it
is going through a person, it trips the breaker just in case.
Unfortunately, that type of breaker is more subject to false trips--if you
have a device like a motor plugged into such an outlet, occasionally it may
trip by mistake. (Moreso if the motor has a slight problem.)
The other thing is that breakers can go bad as they age. A breaker is old, or
has tripped many times may have parts that weaken and the breaker now trips
sooner than normally expected, and/or at a lower current.
So, I hope I've given you enough information to start looking for your
problem. One thing (among many) that comes to mind--do you have anything that
comes on automatically while you're not home, either based on a timer, a
photoswitch, a motion detector, or something like that?
On Saturday, April 16, 2016 11:51:34 PM John Clinard john.clinard@gmail.com
[appliance-repair] wrote:
> This isn't a question about an appliance, but I've found you folks to be
> quite knowledgeable, so I thought some of you might have some ideas. I
> have a breaker for my kitchen lights and washing machine and in the last
> two weeks it has flipped twice. The first time, I came home from work
> found no lights in the kitchen and the flipped breaker. No one was home
> all day and everything was shut off that time. A week later, the lights
> were on and the drier was running and the lights just quit. The drier
> stayed running, I assume, because it is 220W with its own breaker. Any
> ideas? Thanks for your help.
>
> John
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: John Clinard <john.clinard@gmail.com>
> ------------------------------------
>
> All advice on repairs to microwave ovens should only be undertaken by
> qualified service personnel. To unsubscribe please send a mail to the
> following address from the account you recieve this message.
> appliance-repair-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
* you mean tripped (not trying to be pedantic), but there are (on most
(home) breakers, two off positions, one that is all the way in one direction
which is used when a person intentionally turns the breaker off, and one in-
between the on and off positions which is reached when the breaker trips due to
an electrical fault.
* no one else was home who might have switched the breaker to off
In general, a tripped breaker is due to an electrical problem. Most home
breakers can trip for either of two reasons:
* a short circuit, which causes a very high amperage fault, which trips the
breaker very quickly, ideally on the order of milliseconds
* a circuit overload meaning the combination of things turned on uses more
current than the rating of the breaker. Also, this typically occurs much
slower than a short circuit fault, and the time to trip varies depending on
how big the overload is. For example, if you have a circuit breaker rated at
15 amps and you have a load of 16 amps on the breaker, it may take 5 to 60
seconds to trip, if you have a load of 20 amps on the breaker, maybe it will
trip in one second (just guesses). And really, there is enough variation in
breakers that the time to trip will vary between breakers.
Oh, almost forgot, breakers for electrical outlets in damp or potentially wet
areas, like bathrooms, outdoors, and, iiuc, now kitchens need to be protected
by a GFC device--either in the breaker or as special outlets with a built in
GFC device--those will have a button on them to reset them after a fault.
These are designed to trip very quickly on very low current, when the breaker
"thinks" that the low current might be going through a person. They do this
in a little bit of an unexpected way--they (essentially) compare the current
going in on one wire to the current going out on the other wire, and if they
are different by a small amount of current, the breaker is tripped--in essence,
it doesn't know where that missing current is going, but on the chance that it
is going through a person, it trips the breaker just in case.
Unfortunately, that type of breaker is more subject to false trips--if you
have a device like a motor plugged into such an outlet, occasionally it may
trip by mistake. (Moreso if the motor has a slight problem.)
The other thing is that breakers can go bad as they age. A breaker is old, or
has tripped many times may have parts that weaken and the breaker now trips
sooner than normally expected, and/or at a lower current.
So, I hope I've given you enough information to start looking for your
problem. One thing (among many) that comes to mind--do you have anything that
comes on automatically while you're not home, either based on a timer, a
photoswitch, a motion detector, or something like that?
On Saturday, April 16, 2016 11:51:34 PM John Clinard john.clinard@gmail.com
[appliance-repair] wrote:
> This isn't a question about an appliance, but I've found you folks to be
> quite knowledgeable, so I thought some of you might have some ideas. I
> have a breaker for my kitchen lights and washing machine and in the last
> two weeks it has flipped twice. The first time, I came home from work
> found no lights in the kitchen and the flipped breaker. No one was home
> all day and everything was shut off that time. A week later, the lights
> were on and the drier was running and the lights just quit. The drier
> stayed running, I assume, because it is 220W with its own breaker. Any
> ideas? Thanks for your help.
>
> John
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: John Clinard <john.clinard@gmail.com>
> ------------------------------------
>
> All advice on repairs to microwave ovens should only be undertaken by
> qualified service personnel. To unsubscribe please send a mail to the
> following address from the account you recieve this message.
> appliance-repair-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> ------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:33 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"Brian Duerr" briguy1q2w
Replace the breaker. They do and can, wear out.
The connections may be corroded or lose as well. Check that as well.
It should be pretty easy to fix.
Brian/Vermont
The connections may be corroded or lose as well. Check that as well.
It should be pretty easy to fix.
Brian/Vermont
Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:32 am (PDT) . Posted by:
rhkramer03
On Sunday, April 17, 2016 08:33:40 AM 'Brian Duerr' rreud03@gmavt.net
[appliance-repair] wrote:
> Replace the breaker. They do and can, wear out.
>
> The connections may be corroded or lose as well. Check that as well.
+1 (Good points!)
[appliance-repair] wrote:
> Replace the breaker. They do and can, wear out.
>
> The connections may be corroded or lose as well. Check that as well.
+1 (Good points!)
Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:00 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"RichK" gs_biker1
It may be a good idea, to just swap the breaker with another and see if the problem follows it.
May save you few $$ and trip to the store. If not, you have more work to do tracing the problem.
If that breaker has GFCI, that's a likely problem, or it's just sensing a ckt problem, like a path to ground in some receptacle or appliance.
RichK
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 4/17/16, 'Brian Duerr' rreud03@gmavt.net [appliance-repair] <appliance-repair@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Replace the breaker. They do and can, wear out.The
connections may be corroded or lose as well. Check that as
well. It should be pretty easy to
fix. Brian/Vermont
May save you few $$ and trip to the store. If not, you have more work to do tracing the problem.
If that breaker has GFCI, that's a likely problem, or it's just sensing a ckt problem, like a path to ground in some receptacle or appliance.
RichK
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 4/17/16, 'Brian Duerr' rreud03@gmavt.net [appliance-repair] <appliance-repair@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Replace the breaker. They do and can, wear out.The
connections may be corroded or lose as well. Check that as
well. It should be pretty easy to
fix. Brian/Vermont
Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:19 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
"Bruce Lund" bruceedwardlund
A GFC seems to be good possibility. They are found where outlets can be exposed to water and utility rooms and kitchens are prime candidates. And utility rooms are often on exterior walls which means an exterior outlet could be on the same circuit.
Now, since you apparently were able to get the circuit working again by flipping the circuit breaker (You didn't say that, but you didn't say otherwise so that is my assumption.) then the issue is on that circuit and not a GFC outlet. If it is a GFC breaker, you can pursue the water angle. If not, then it is something else. Swapping breakers might help you isolate the problem (Make sure you don't put the breaker on a mission critical outlet!) or you can just buy a new one and pop it in to see if that solves the problem. Bruce Lund
From: "rhkramer@gmail.com [appliance-repair]" <appliance-repair@yahoogroups.com>
To: appliance-repair@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2016 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: [appliance-repair] Flipped Electrical Breaker
I assume a few things:
* you mean tripped (not trying to be pedantic), but there are (on most
(home) breakers, two off positions, one that is all the way in one direction
which is used when a person intentionally turns the breaker off, and one in-
between the on and off positions which is reached when the breaker trips due to
an electrical fault.
* no one else was home who might have switched the breaker to off
In general, a tripped breaker is due to an electrical problem. Most home
breakers can trip for either of two reasons:
* a short circuit, which causes a very high amperage fault, which trips the
breaker very quickly, ideally on the order of milliseconds
* a circuit overload meaning the combination of things turned on uses more
current than the rating of the breaker. Also, this typically occurs much
slower than a short circuit fault, and the time to trip varies depending on
how big the overload is. For example, if you have a circuit breaker rated at
15 amps and you have a load of 16 amps on the breaker, it may take 5 to 60
seconds to trip, if you have a load of 20 amps on the breaker, maybe it will
trip in one second (just guesses). And really, there is enough variation in
breakers that the time to trip will vary between breakers.
Oh, almost forgot, breakers for electrical outlets in damp or potentially wet
areas, like bathrooms, outdoors, and, iiuc, now kitchens need to be protected
by a GFC device--either in the breaker or as special outlets with a built in
GFC device--those will have a button on them to reset them after a fault.
These are designed to trip very quickly on very low current, when the breaker
"thinks" that the low current might be going through a person. They do this
in a little bit of an unexpected way--they (essentially) compare the current
going in on one wire to the current going out on the other wire, and if they
are different by a small amount of current, the breaker is tripped--in essence,
it doesn't know where that missing current is going, but on the chance that it
is going through a person, it trips the breaker just in case.
Unfortunately, that type of breaker is more subject to false trips--if you
have a device like a motor plugged into such an outlet, occasionally it may
trip by mistake. (Moreso if the motor has a slight problem.)
The other thing is that breakers can go bad as they age. A breaker is old, or
has tripped many times may have parts that weaken and the breaker now trips
sooner than normally expected, and/or at a lower current.
So, I hope I've given you enough information to start looking for your
problem. One thing (among many) that comes to mind--do you have anything that
comes on automatically while you're not home, either based on a timer, a
photoswitch, a motion detector, or something like that?
On Saturday, April 16, 2016 11:51:34 PM John Clinard john.clinard@gmail.com
[appliance-repair] wrote:
> This isn't a question about an appliance, but I've found you folks to be
> quite knowledgeable, so I thought some of you might have some ideas. I
> have a breaker for my kitchen lights and washing machine and in the last
> two weeks it has flipped twice. The first time, I came home from work
> found no lights in the kitchen and the flipped breaker. No one was home
> all day and everything was shut off that time. A week later, the lights
> were on and the drier was running and the lights just quit. The drier
> stayed running, I assume, because it is 220W with its own breaker. Any
> ideas? Thanks for your help.
>
> John
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: John Clinard <john.clinard@gmail.com>
> ------------------------------------
>
> All advice on repairs to microwave ovens should only be undertaken by
> qualified service personnel. To unsubscribe please send a mail to the
> following address from the account you recieve this message.
> appliance-repair-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
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Now, since you apparently were able to get the circuit working again by flipping the circuit breaker (You didn't say that, but you didn't say otherwise so that is my assumption.) then the issue is on that circuit and not a GFC outlet. If it is a GFC breaker, you can pursue the water angle. If not, then it is something else. Swapping breakers might help you isolate the problem (Make sure you don't put the breaker on a mission critical outlet!) or you can just buy a new one and pop it in to see if that solves the problem. Bruce Lund
From: "rhkramer@gmail.com [appliance-repair]" <appliance-repair@yahoogroups.com>
To: appliance-repair@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2016 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: [appliance-repair] Flipped Electrical Breaker
I assume a few things:
* you mean tripped (not trying to be pedantic), but there are (on most
(home) breakers, two off positions, one that is all the way in one direction
which is used when a person intentionally turns the breaker off, and one in-
between the on and off positions which is reached when the breaker trips due to
an electrical fault.
* no one else was home who might have switched the breaker to off
In general, a tripped breaker is due to an electrical problem. Most home
breakers can trip for either of two reasons:
* a short circuit, which causes a very high amperage fault, which trips the
breaker very quickly, ideally on the order of milliseconds
* a circuit overload meaning the combination of things turned on uses more
current than the rating of the breaker. Also, this typically occurs much
slower than a short circuit fault, and the time to trip varies depending on
how big the overload is. For example, if you have a circuit breaker rated at
15 amps and you have a load of 16 amps on the breaker, it may take 5 to 60
seconds to trip, if you have a load of 20 amps on the breaker, maybe it will
trip in one second (just guesses). And really, there is enough variation in
breakers that the time to trip will vary between breakers.
Oh, almost forgot, breakers for electrical outlets in damp or potentially wet
areas, like bathrooms, outdoors, and, iiuc, now kitchens need to be protected
by a GFC device--either in the breaker or as special outlets with a built in
GFC device--those will have a button on them to reset them after a fault.
These are designed to trip very quickly on very low current, when the breaker
"thinks" that the low current might be going through a person. They do this
in a little bit of an unexpected way--they (essentially) compare the current
going in on one wire to the current going out on the other wire, and if they
are different by a small amount of current, the breaker is tripped--in essence,
it doesn't know where that missing current is going, but on the chance that it
is going through a person, it trips the breaker just in case.
Unfortunately, that type of breaker is more subject to false trips--if you
have a device like a motor plugged into such an outlet, occasionally it may
trip by mistake. (Moreso if the motor has a slight problem.)
The other thing is that breakers can go bad as they age. A breaker is old, or
has tripped many times may have parts that weaken and the breaker now trips
sooner than normally expected, and/or at a lower current.
So, I hope I've given you enough information to start looking for your
problem. One thing (among many) that comes to mind--do you have anything that
comes on automatically while you're not home, either based on a timer, a
photoswitch, a motion detector, or something like that?
On Saturday, April 16, 2016 11:51:34 PM John Clinard john.clinard@gmail.com
[appliance-repair] wrote:
> This isn't a question about an appliance, but I've found you folks to be
> quite knowledgeable, so I thought some of you might have some ideas. I
> have a breaker for my kitchen lights and washing machine and in the last
> two weeks it has flipped twice. The first time, I came home from work
> found no lights in the kitchen and the flipped breaker. No one was home
> all day and everything was shut off that time. A week later, the lights
> were on and the drier was running and the lights just quit. The drier
> stayed running, I assume, because it is 220W with its own breaker. Any
> ideas? Thanks for your help.
>
> John
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: John Clinard <john.clinard@gmail.com>
> ------------------------------------
>
> All advice on repairs to microwave ovens should only be undertaken by
> qualified service personnel. To unsubscribe please send a mail to the
> following address from the account you recieve this message.
> appliance-repair-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> ------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
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To unsubscribe please send a mail to the following address from the account you recieve this message.
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